| His Holiness Pope Tawadros II, in an interview conducted during the Sixth World Conference of the Faith and Order Commission in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt, reflects on the deep heritage of the Coptic Orthodox Church, its unique roles, and the importance of hosting the historic conference, which drew more than 400 people who explored the theme “Where now for visible unity?” |
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 | | 27 October 2025, Wadi El Natrun, Egypt: His Holiness Pope Tawadros II of the Coptic Orthodox Church, Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of the See of St. Mark, pictured in connection with the World Council of Churches Sixth World Conference on Faith and Order taking place 24-28 October 2025 in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt, around the theme “Where now for visible unity?” Photo: Albin Hillert/WCC |
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Your Holiness, you mentioned in one of your statements that “A homeland without churches is better than churches without a homeland.” Can you clarify this statement? How do you describe the role of the Coptic Orthodox Church in this context? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: First, I would like to welcome you here in Egypt. In 2013, many attacks have occurred against the Coptic Churches in one day and many churches were destroyed and burned; there was a crisis in the country, Egypt. Of course, the church has a great value in the hearts of the Christians and also among our Muslim brothers and sisters. So for the sake of the societal peace, I said this sentence “a homeland without churches is better than churches without a homeland.” If the homeland is destroyed, we won’t know how to rebuild it. But if the church, which is built from bricks and gravels, is destroyed, we will rebuild it. So the homeland comes before the church, and for this reason we say a homeland without churches is better. The homeland is constant because the homeland is the people so the homeland will build churches and this is what was already happened. After one or two years of these incidents, the churches have been built, maybe in a better way than it was before. Thanks to the state in Egypt for completing this entire role, and more than 200 million Egyptian pounds were spent in rebuilding the churches. That was so kind and maintained the peace in the country. How does the church strengthen the bonds of love and brotherhood so that it truly becomes an open heart to everyone? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: The Coptic Church believes that every church has two roles. The first role is spiritual, which is the service of the Christian believers inside the church and preparing them for the Kingdom of Heaven, and the second role is social, which is the service of the society where it is. Service to the community in every possible way, so when we establish a school, hospital, nursery, and so on, we are serving the community. These two roles are related to each other exactly the same as when the human stands with his or her feet on the earth, but his mind is in heaven. We always pray “on earth as it is in heaven.” Just as heaven is beautiful, we want the church and the society to be better. Your Holiness, Egyptian society is characterized by the diversity of its culture, religions, and religious groups. It forms a distinctive fabric of social cohesion. So what are the efforts of the church, especially the Coptic Orthodox Church, in rooting social unity today, and what is its role towards strengthening relations between churches? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: When you read history, you will know that from the pharaonic eras, all the Egyptians lived around the Nile, and when Christianity entered Egypt and the Coptic Church was established, all Egyptians remained around the Nile River. When Islam entered Egypt in the 7th century AD, also the Egyptians lived around the Nile, and from the Nile River we draw life. Because we all lived around the Nile, a kind of bond and national unity was achieved. This unity forms something like a triangle thread which has three ends, the Nile we drink from, the land we eat from, and I, the Egyptian person, I am the son or the daughter of the Nile. So this triad made a strong bond among the Egyptian people, the land and the Nile. This is what continues until today. For example, it is prestigious that someone says having a home on the Nile which means that this person is rich or important, regarding that the Nile gives us life. We have very good relationships with our Muslim brothers and sisters, and these relationships appear in many ways, because Egyptian society is not separated. We exist in same schools, universities, streets, and also the same hospitals all together. You cannot ever distinguish between Christian and Muslim people in Egypt except that some people enter the mosque, and others enter the church. We have an organization in Egypt called the “Family House” that seeks to strengthen this unity; this Family House includes Christians and Muslims. It is under the responsibility of the church and Al-Azhar. It also includes three working groups that work at the social levels like youth, woman, and children. Your Holiness, the Coptic orthodox Church has a deep-rooted historical heritage. How does the church work to maintain this heritage? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: The Coptic Orthodox Church is one of the most ancient churches in the world and it has a history extending over 2,000 years. If you read the book of Isaiah in the Old Testament, chapter 19, you will find the verse “Blessed be Egypt, my people.” This is at the end of the chapter. But at the beginning of the chapter, you can read: “In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the Lord at its border.” It is a Christian altar, and exists in Asyut region in the Monastery of al-Muharraq, and everyone can visit it. The “border” refers to St Mark because he came from the west; he is originally from Libya so when he came to Egypt, he came from the west so that we have heritage diversity in language, art, literature, icons, music, writings, and generally in the art of architecture, iconostasis, and other types of art. The Coptic heritage is vast and profound and, most importantly, it is still alive until today. For example, we use the music which our grandfathers used from 2,000 years ago and we read the language which they spoke in the early centuries and so on. |
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 | | 24 October 2025, Wadi El Natrun, Egypt: His Holiness Pope Tawadros II of the Coptic Orthodox Church pictured during the opening day of the World Council of Churches Sixth World Conference on Faith and Order taking place 24-28 October 2025 in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt, around the theme “Where now for visible unity?” Photo: Albin Hillert/WCC |
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Your Holiness, the international delegations participating in this conference visited some of the religious and spiritual places in Wadi El Natrun in Egypt. How do you see the importance of these visits to reflect the culture of the Coptic Church to the whole world? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: I would like to draw your attention that Wadi El Natrun is the geographic name but the monastic name is Shehit Wilderness, and Shehit means “balance of hearts.” The monks lived in Shehit Wilderness from the fourth century AD. In fact, it was full of monks and hermits and the asceticism was intense and very profound with rules and regulations. That region was called in the books by the name of Al Esqiet and this word is Greek-Latin which means the university of asceticism. So if you want to search for the monastic Christian asceticism, you can learn it here in Wadi El Natrun. Wadi El Natrun was full of monasteries. Even before there were walls to these monasteries, the fathers lived in their houses or cells alone. St John Chrysostom visited Egypt and when he came back, they asked him: “What did you see in Egypt?” He said a historical quote which is, “The heavens, speckled with a multitude of stars, are not as bright as the Egyptian desert.” In the past, there was no electricity and they relied on candles so with the stillness of the night and the quietness of the place, it was a candle in every cell. Looking from above, it is like stars among the darkness of the night so that he said “The heavens, speckled with a multitude of stars, are not as bright as the Egyptian desert with all its monks or hermits,” and this is because prayers ascend from this place. Now in Wadi El Natrun, the participants of this international conference visited the four monasteries we have, and these four monasteries include around 800 monks living there. Every day, they raise the prayers at 4 am. Every monk has his own work and his production which is the production of the monastery. The monasteries have a role in the economic life in the society. At 4pm, the monks reunite again to pray as if the prayers are raised throughout the 24 hours, and this is in itself a protection, strength, and grace. Your Holiness, what is the importance of hosting this conference, especially here, in this historical place, in Wadi Al Natrun? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: Firstly, the world conference is held on the occasion of 17 centuries on the Council of Nicaea. Nicaea is a city in Turkey. The Council of Nicaea discussed a problem that took place in the land of Egypt which is the problem of Arius the heretic and corrupt priest. So that it is out of appreciation and gratitude that the world churches celebrate the passage of 17 centuries since the Council of Nicaea in the land of Egypt. With that, there is a kind of honoring to the fathers who defended the Christian faith. St Alexander the Coptic Pope and the Deacon Athanasius who became the 20th Coptic Pope. So, the presence of this huge gathering is an appreciation and remembrance of what has been accomplished since 17 centuries, especially that we have great fathers who maintain the faith. Do not forget that at the days of the Council of Nicaea, the whole world was one Christian church; there was no division that occurred. The division occurred at the Council of Chalcedon in the year 451; before that, the whole world was one, so the name of the conference is, “Where now for visible unity?” And how can we revive the spirit of Nicaea today? Based on the theme of this conference and this historical event, what are the meanings of this title? Where are we now for Christian unity? And what are its meanings and visions for the church generally and for the Coptic orthodox Church specifically? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: Firstly, we seek unity and I think most of the churches of the world have the same concept. But the Coptic Church vision of unity is the unity of the faith first, as the Holy Book in Ephesus says: ”One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” so the idea is to have all one faith. “One faith” means that our view of the Lord Jesus Christ and our faith in His work are one without any difference. Of course, nowadays there are some differences, and we try to solve these differences through dialogues. I want to mention two things. There is what is called relationships and there is what is called dialogues among the churches of the world. The relationships are built to strengthen love, our love in Jesus Christ. This is what we witness in the World Council of Churches, Middle East Council of Churches, the Egyptian Council of Churches, all the regional, national, and international gatherings and councils: relationships to strengthen love and this is an important thing through visits, conferences, meetings, and so on. The second type is called dialogues, and they are always theological dialogues in which there is an official representation to any church. The dialogue is conducted in an organized manner with an agenda, and these dialogues are aimed to reach a unified faith-based understanding which leads to unity. In that way, we have both the relationships and the dialogues. The relationships are for love, and the dialogues are for understanding the faith. We reach, through both of them, unity. This is the course of the churches of the whole world, and we are also on this course. Your Holiness, the conference includes many sessions and workshops, as well as exchanging experiences from all over the world. What are the topics and issues covered during the conference? And what conclusions will come out of it in your opinion? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: Of course, the conference includes many discussions, workshops, lectures. Papers are presented and professors discuss how the concept of unity should be. It comes under the title of relationships which makes us closer to each other and let us help to understand each other. Our visible model is the Ecumenical Council of Nicaea; this is the model and the image. So, the participants try to derive the meanings and analyze what has occurred and how we can apply this today, how can we live it today. Of course, the reality nowadays is totally different from Nicaea’s days. The number of churches participating in the conference is very big. There is a great opportunity for the participants to get to know the ancient Coptic Orthodox Church. The Coptic Church, as I said at the beginning, is one of the most ancient churches of the world but it is a living church in every sense of the word. You may notice that the work of the conference is managed by groups of the Coptic Church youth, trained groups that know what are they doing. This is our first time and first experience in doing that but, the youth are very successful. This is a direct proof that the ancient church since 2,000 years until now is still a youthful and successful church, and the evidence is the youth not the lectures. The practical evidence is the participating youth. There are around 100 young man and woman. All of them are university students, doing great work, good at languages, managing this work, which is our first experience. We did not take any training outside Egypt. So, in fact, this is a great success in addition to the success of the conference. |
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 | | 28 October 2025, Wadi El Natrun, Egypt: His Holiness Pope Tawadros II of the Coptic Orthodox Church gives a concluding reflection, including the presentation of a special gift, during the closing session of the World Council of Churches Sixth World Conference on Faith and Order taking place 24-28 October 2025 in Wadi El Natrun, Egypt, around the theme “Where now for visible unity?” Photo: Albin Hillert/WCC |
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Your Holiness, how would you describe the cooperation between the Coptic Orthodox Church and the World Council of Churches in organizing this conference? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: Of course, I would like to mention that the Coptic Church is one of the churches that contributed to the founding of the World Council of Churches. We have been involved with the council since the 1950s. Our participation in the council and ecumenical work is ongoing and extensive. It suffices to mention that Pope Cyril VI, who served from 1959 to 1971, a period of 12 years, ordained the first Bishop in the Coptic Church in 1962, Anba Samuel, naming him General Bishop of Social and Ecumenical Services. The term "ecumenical" has been part of the church's statutes since 1962. The Episcopate continues to this day, having been led by many bishops, and remains a successful Episcopate. We have two committees within the Holy Synod: the Committee for Ecumenical Relations and the Committee for Ecumenical Dialogue, which engages with churches worldwide. When the idea of the meeting first arose, we were determined to keep holding it in Egypt, the Church of Alexandria, and thank God, we did. After we reached an agreement—and this was two years ago—we began a kind of cooperation. We formed a preparatory committee here in Egypt, and they formed theirs. They visited us to check on us and see what we needed, including the participants and many administrative details. There was complete cooperation. I would like to mention that the conference is in two parts. The first part is at the Global Ecumenical Theological Institute (GETI), and it began with about 150 participants. Then there's the main conference. The whole thing took about three weeks. We are holding it for the first time in the history of Egypt, in the history of the Coptic Church, in the history of the church of Africa, and in the history of the Orthodox Churches in general. This is truly a source of pride and appreciation, and I thank all those who contributed to this work, starting with the general secretary of the World Council of Churches, the director of the Faith and Order Commission, and of course GETI, and all those who participated in the success of this conference. Your Holiness, the Coptic Church is a fundamental and important part of the ecumenical movement. As you mentioned, it contributed to the founding of the World Council of Churches and is also a member of the Middle East Council of Churches. What is your message to these two councils today, despite all the difficulties? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: We are also a founding church of the Middle East Council of Churches, established in 1974, and we have a significant role and activity within it. Our role is to encourage, participate in, strengthen, and support these councils, while simultaneously engaging in dialogue and striving to understand one another better. I would like to add to this the Egyptian Council of Churches, which began in February 2013. It is a local council with five members. Then, we have the Middle East Council of Churches, the World Council of Churches, and before them, the All Africa Conference of Churches. We are actively involved; we have representatives on the central and executive committees, and we have significant work and participation. There is an ongoing process of communication with these councils. Just a short while ago, a week or ten days ago, Dr Michel Abs visited us. Communication is ongoing and we try to encourage these councils because they are an opportunity for us to have joint work. Your Holiness, despite all the challenges we face today, how can we truly live ecumenism? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: Of course, there are challenges, but perhaps the challenges of our time are serious social ones, and the most dangerous of them is straying from the commandment—the commandment of the Holy Scriptures. Therefore, we must all be guardians of the divine commandment. You hear immoral things, things completely contrary to the faith, fads that people are adopting. All of this distances the Christian from God's commandment. The Lord Jesus tells us that the words He speaks to you are spirit and life. Without the Word of God, there is neither spirit nor life; the person remains dead. So, the work of the councils, and of us, the churches, is how we proclaim and clarify the voice of God in the Holy Scriptures, the voice of the commandment; how we live by the Scriptures; how we live in our churches according to Christian virtues; how we live according to the voice of the fathers who handed down the faith to us; and how we are also truly practicing the spiritual life. According to St John the Apostle, we do not love with words or tongues, but with deeds and in truth. Thus, we present the work of true love. Your Holiness, returning to the topic of youth work, you consistently support their activities within the church and in the field, accompanying them in all their church endeavors. What is the role of the Coptic Orthodox Church in raising virtuous generations today to build better societies, and what is the importance, in your view, of the conference and the program of the Global Ecumenical Theological Institute? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: I want to point out that there are three levels: the level of children (childhood), the level of youth, and the level of newly formed families—those who have been married for ten years. At the level of children, we have what are called Sunday Schools, and thank God, Sunday Schools in Egypt are a strong educational system. I want to mention that the Coptic Church's patriarchs, metropolitans, bishops, priests, deacons, men, and women—have all graduated from Sunday Schools, which is a very strong indicator. The second level is the youth level. In our churches, almost every church has a weekly youth meeting, and sometimes many meetings. For example, there are meetings for university students, meetings for young workers, and so on. These meetings, alongside church gatherings, conferences, retreats, and periods of reflection, contribute to the upbringing of young people. Youth have a very significant role in service. Some serve in Sunday Schools, while others participate in larger services such as scouting, serving in the deacons' choir, and girls' choirs. Youth have a vital role, and we consider them essential in the work of the church. The highest level is that of newly formed families. Before families are formed, we have programs to prepare couples for marriage. These programs are taught and are very effective. Then, when a family begins to form, it receives care from its church and its priest. After they have children, they receive care until they are fully integrated into the church. The work is extensive, but at the same time, it is very well-organized, and we thank God for that. Your Holiness, on another note, in a world immersed in hate speech, injustice, and unfairness, the media plays a crucial role in disseminating human values and spreading positive messages. How do you interpret this new media strategy, and what is the importance of the media's role today? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: The media plays a very effective role in today's world; it's a form of communication. I want to mention that Christianity, in its initial definition, is that God wanted to reveal Himself to people to teach them. God was not distant from humanity, and from this came the Incarnation and the existence of Christ. Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh for the sake of humanity. The media has a very significant role, and positive media builds up, not tears down. Of course, the strategy you mentioned, which is adopted by the Middle East Council of Churches, is great and very important, especially given the hate speech we hear about and which continues to be disseminated widely on social media. We cultivate virtues, promote good deeds, and offer positive role models to society in general. This is something that builds society and makes it better. I want to point out that I have a motto in my life that I constantly apply and proclaim, and this motto is one of the verses of the Holy Bible. The motto says, "Love never fails." You can find it everywhere among us, and it is found in the letter of St Peter the Apostle to the Corinthians, First Epistle, chapter 13, verse 8. Sowing love, offering love, and speaking love in practice will save people from sinful acts, acts of hatred, acts of rebellion and stubbornness, and all sins. Your Holiness, as we conclude this special interview, what is your message of hope for the whole world today, despite all the challenges and difficulties we are facing? His Holiness Pope Tawadros II: When each morning the sun rises, God sends a message that there is hope. When a new child is born and becomes one of humanity, this is a message from God that He still loves humanity, and therefore He sends new people to live in this world. Hope exists, faith exists, and love exists. When a person raises their head and heart to heaven, they feel that all the difficulties we face and the challenges we see diminish because there is a great and powerful God. St Peter the Apostle says, "I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength." We can overcome everything in our lives, in the name of Christ, and we can continue on our paths. The interview was conducted in Arabic by Elia Nasrallah, Media and Communication Officer, The Middle East Council of Churches in close collaboration with the Coptic Orthodox Church and the World Council of Churches. Video interview with His Holiness Pope Tawadros II His Holiness Pope Tawadros II receives WCC delegation (WCC news release, 27 October 2025) Sixth World Conference on Faith and Order issues “Call to All Christians” (WCC news release, 28 October 2025) Photogallery: Sixth World Conference on Faith and Order, 2025 Learn more about the Sixth World Conference on Faith and Order |
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 | | Special interview with His Holiness Pope Tawadros II |
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